Interview with Natalia le Gal
- Merle van den Akker
- 14 minutes ago
- 10 min read
Behavioural Science is a rapidly expanding field and everyday new research is being developed in academia, tested and implemented by practitioners in financial organisations, development agencies, government ‘nudge’ units and more. This interview is part of a series interviewing prominent people in the field. And in today's interview the answers are provided by Natalia le Gal.
Natalia is the founder of Behava, a behaviour change practice born from her lifelong curiosity about why people do what they do. With a background in Anthropology and International Relations from the University of Aberdeen and a Master’s in Eco-Innovation from Université de Versailles, Natalia’s journey has been driven by a desire to uncover the deeper motivations behind human actions. After eight years in PR, marketing, and sales for electric vehicle charging solutions, she realised during her maternity leave in 2020 that true transformation lies not just in promoting new technologies, but in understanding and changing behaviour itself. Completing an MSc in Behaviour Change at UCL gave her the tools to bridge the “why” and the “how” of human behaviour, which she now applies through Behava to help organisations, NGOs, and governments design strategies that inspire meaningful and lasting change.
Who or what got you into behavioural science?
I didn’t even realise behavioural science existed at first. I did my degree in Anthropology and my moved into the domain of eco-innovation management. I spent eight years working in the electric mobility field. Sustainability had always been my passion since university, but I was getting tired of the industry and my job. Then came maternity leave, which gave me a chance to pause and reflect what shape I would like my career to have. During that time, I read Donut Economics, and it introduced me to the phrase “behaviour change.” That was it. That was the click moment. I thought, “Yes—this is what I want to do.”
The real game-changer, though, was Covid. I’m based in France, and the top behavioural science master’s programmes are in the UK. Normally, I wouldn’t have been able to relocate with my family, but with Covid, everything went online. I applied to UCL, hoping I could study remotely, and I was right. From the very first moment, I knew I had found it: this was what I’d been searching for all along. Since then, I haven’t looked back. This is what I want to keep doing. Covid was my silver lining. Without it, I don’t know if I would have made the leap, but I’m very glad I did.
What is the accomplishment you are proudest of as a behavioural scientist? And what would you still like to achieve?
What I’m most proud of right now is having my own company, doing the work I love, and serving clients in a way that aligns with my values. I’ve been an entrepreneur since my twenties, my first business at 23 was selling menstrual cups and other sustainable products. Looking back, I was already trying to change behaviour without really knowing the science behind it. I had a great product, but I didn’t yet understand why people wouldn’t just adopt it. That frustration stuck with me.
Now with Behava, I’ve found a balance between passion, purpose, and autonomy. I’m still growing and getting clients and projects is always a challenge, but I’m proud to be doing this work. I’m also proud of my behavioural science cartoons. People really respond to them. A researcher once told me he uses them in his lectures, which made my day. I just love communicating behavioural insights in fun ways.
Looking forward, I want to write a book on transport behaviour change which is my specialty. I feel like there’s a gap in how the topic is being approached, and the idea I have for it could be an important contribution to what is happening in the transport sector. It’s early days, but if I can pull it off, I’ll be very proud indeed.
How do you think behavioural science will develop (in the next 10 years)?
I think we’re going to see big changes. There’s already a strong trend of behavioural science merging with tech, and I believe that’ll only grow. This integration could make us more effective, especially in fields like transport. I recently heard about a researcher using Bluetooth to track pedestrian movement in order to measure walkability and walking behaviours. That kind of data gives us insights at scale, something that surveys or observations alone can’t do.
I also think we’re moving towards more systemic approaches to complex problems: modelling interventions, simulating behaviours, anticipating unintended consequences, on a system level. It’s all fascinating. AI, of course, is going to be huge. It already is. I use it in my own work, like many of us do, in various ways. I think using AI for research, but also synthetic data and personas will become more mainstream. The jury’s still out on how useful or ethical that will be, but it’s an area to watch.
What concerns me is the ethical side of all this. AI is already being used to influence people at scale, including in political contexts. It raises the question: how do we, as behavioural scientists, evolve alongside AI? How do we ensure it’s being used ethically? Will our skills even be needed in ten years, or will AI take over?
I think the most likely future is coexistence. With tension. There’ll be major ethical challenges we need to face, and possibly even new regulation. Behavioural science has never been regulated before, especially in applied settings. But as we gain the power to influence behaviour more effectively and on a bigger scale, that’s going to have to change. I see this as both a challenge and an opportunity. If we’re thoughtful, we can shape the future in a positive way. But we can’t be passive. We need to be active participants in deciding where behavioural science goes from here.
What are the greatest challenges being faced by behavioural science, right now?
AI is without a doubt the biggest challenge. As I said previously: how do we evolve alongside AI? How do we make the most of it for good? At the same time, how do we protect our field from being used unethically, like stoking division, manipulating political outcomes, or deepening inequality? These things are already happening.
There’s also the challenge of staying relevant. A lot of what behavioural scientists do can already be replicated by AI, and while it may not be the same quality yet, it’s “good enough” for many contexts. So, what happens to our roles when that gap narrows?
Then there’s the issue of implementation in messy, real-world contexts. You can model and predict behaviours all you like, but humans are unpredictable. And yet we now face tools that claim to understand and shape us better than ever. That’s powerful. And risky.
I also think regulation is overdue. Applied behavioural science is often the Wild West. Unlike academia, which has strong ethical frameworks, applied work lacks consistency and accountability. We need better awareness from policymakers and clearer standards, similar to what we’ve seen in the UK’s financial sector when it comes to nudging.
Finally, there’s the internal challenge: how do we talk about the ethics of our work? I was recently in a WhatsApp group where people discussed whether it’s ethical to work for companies using behavioural science for questionable purposes. These are conversations we need more of, not just among ourselves, but publicly. Right now, it feels like we’re waiting for someone else to start the debate. But if we want to shape the future of the field, we have to engage with its ethical dimension now. Otherwise, we risk behavioural science being shaped by others, with outcomes we may not like.
What advice would you give to young behavioural scientists or those looking to progress into the field?
I always start with this: be cautious. Behavioural science is a powerful field, but it's becoming crowded, and competition is high. Getting a Master’s from a well-known institution like UCL can absolutely help, it gives you not just the knowledge, but a network and a stamp of recognition. I’ve seen my classmates go on to work at top organisations, and that credential really opens doors. But a degree alone is no longer enough.
My strongest advice is: don’t rely solely on behavioural science. Build another skillset alongside it. For me, that’s transport and sustainability. That’s what makes me stand out. Whether it’s a sector, a technical ability, or a particular problem space—develop your niche. That’s what will make you valuable.
Be interdisciplinary. Methodologically, yes you need to understand different approaches, challenge frameworks, question assumptions. But also topically. Pick a focus area where your behavioural expertise can have impact. That way, people know what you bring to the table.
And if you’re thinking about starting your own business, know that it’s hard. I love having my own company, but I wouldn’t necessarily recommend that path right away. It’s much easier to join an existing consultancy first, learn the ropes, and get experience. Running your own business means you’re doing everything—finding clients, managing projects, handling operations. It’s a lot.
Lastly, stay curious. Keep learning. Read widely, whether that’s books, articles, even LinkedIn posts. New perspectives are everywhere. When I started out, I was very sure of myself. But over time I’ve learned that there is no one right way. Being open and questioning is what will make you grow.
With all your experience, what skills would you say are needed to be a behavioural scientist? Are there any recommendations you would make?
Curiosity is number one. You need to be endlessly curious, open, and committed to learning, constantly. That’s a mindset more than a skill, but it’s essential. When I first started, I was a bit dogmatic. I thought I had the answers. But the more I’ve learned, the more I’ve realised how complex behaviour really is. Now I challenge my own assumptions all the time. I use established frameworks, but I also question them. That kind of reflective practice is crucial.
You also need the ability to communicate clearly, especially in applied contexts. A lot of our work is about translating insights in ways that resonate. That’s partly why I love making cartoons, they help bring behavioural science to wider audiences. Clarity and creativity go hand-in-hand.
I also think interdisciplinary thinking is a must. Don’t box yourself into “just behavioural science.” Bring in other domains, data, coding, design, systems thinking. Even if you’re not an expert in all of them, knowing how they connect with behavioural insights makes you much more powerful as a practitioner.
Being comfortable with ambiguity helps too. Real-world behaviour is messy. Our models aren’t perfect. You need to be okay with that.
And lastly, resilience. Especially if you’re working independently, there will be setbacks. Clients, projects, rejections—it’s all part of it. Being able to stay motivated, keep going, and adapt is critical.
So my recommendation? Stay humble. Keep learning. Build bridges across disciplines. Learn to tell a compelling story. And don’t be afraid to blend what you love into your practice, whether it’s transport, design, cartoons, or parenting. That’s where the magic happens.
What is your biggest frustration with the field as it stands?
There’s one thing that really frustrates me, and it’s specific to my area, behavioural science for sustainability. We’re not getting the message through to the right people. Sustainability teams in companies still mostly rely on education and information campaigns to try to change behaviour. They assume people just need to be told what to do. But we know that doesn’t work. And yet, the gap between what we know and what’s being implemented is still massive.
I teach sustainability students at master’s level, and they always come in saying the same thing: “People just need more information.” It’s a deeply ingrained assumption, and breaking it is hard. I’m frustrated with myself too: I haven’t figured out how to get that message across in a way that really lands. It’s something I’m still researching.
There’s also the lack of ethical debate in the field. We don’t talk enough about whether it’s okay to influence people, even for good. We take it for granted. And I get it, there’s no money in ethics. But if we don’t start having those conversations, we’re doing ourselves a disservice. Behavioural science is being used to influence at scale, often without consent or transparency. We need frameworks. We need accountability.
How do you apply behavioural science to your own life, if at all?
It’s helped me become more accepting of people. When I see someone doing something I don’t agree with, I don’t immediately judge; I wonder what barriers they might be facing. That’s a big shift. I’m also more aware of behavioural techniques in my own environment, so I try not to be manipulated! At home, I use modelling a lot, especially with my daughter. If I want her to do something, I make sure I do it first.
I also use commitment strategies on myself. As I mentioned, I’m currently working on a book, and I’ve built in little systems to keep myself accountable and progressing. And recently, I tested a motivational interviewing course I’m building with my husband. He told me he finally had a name for the types of conversations I have with him and our daughter! It was such a fun and rewarding way to blend my professional and personal lives.
If not a behavioural scientist, what else would you be?
If I hadn’t found behavioural science, I think I would have stayed in the sustainable transport and climate tech world. That’s what I was doing, and I was good at it, even if it always felt like something was missing. That human element wasn’t really there. But honestly, parenting has also made me deeply interested in how we raise children. If behavioural science hadn’t come into my life, I might have gone into exploring parenting practices—how to help parents be better, more mindful, more supported. That still fascinates me. And who knows—I might still go there through behavioural science.
Who else would you recommend me to interview?
When you asked this, I immediately thought of Professor Susan Michie, she’s had a huge influence on the field, and especially on the ethical aspects we discussed. But then I realised you’ve already interviewed her! So I started Googling people I admire, and turns out—you’ve spoken to most of them: Christina Gravert, Laura de Molière, Elina Halonen. One person you maybe haven’t interviewed yet is Kristian Steensen Nielsen C. Nielsen. His work on behavioural science and sustainability, especially identifying which groups most influence CO2 emissions, is fascinating. I think his insights would add real depth to the conversation, especially around systemic impact. Matthias Höppner, who created the LinkedIn page Green Nudges, where every week we can learn a new, useful, sustainability-oriented nudge, could also be interesting to talk with. He works with Laura Sommer, another sustainability BeSci pro, whose work I love. I always learn something new from her LinkedIn posts And the last one that comes to mind, In the food behaviour change space space, is Sophie Attwood. She is an authority on the subject for me.
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions Natalia!
As I said before, this interview is part of a larger series which can also be found here on the blog. Make sure you don't miss any of those, nor any of the upcoming interviews!
Keep your eye on Money on the Mind!
